by Mark Driscoll, John Burke, Dan Kimball, Doug Pagitt, Karen Ward
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Product Description
A cross-section of five frontline leaders in the controversial emerging church movement shed informative light on their beliefs and basic message to help us understand whether it’s all about new methods or a new message or both.
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Average Customer Review:
1 of 1 people found the following review helpful:
 Outstanding read!, 2008-03-18
Listening to the Beliefs of Emerging Churches - Five Perspectives is a book edited by Robert Webber that contains theological essays by five leaders of the emerging church. Those of you who have any familiarity with the emerging church know how difficult it is to pin down anything, so this book provides a little glimpse into the theology of a few successful emerging churches.
There are five essays, each followed by responses by the other four authors. The overwhelming tone of this book is one of friendship and respect. Even when there are radically different views the responses provide a glimpse of how I believe God intended us to work through these things. There is no shouting, no condemning, there is love and respect. It is wonderful to behold.
There were a few quotes from Dan Kimball that I thought were worth sharing about the beliefs of the emerging church:
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If we are only trying to be "relevant" (a word churches love to use), by adding candles and coffee, using art in worship, and playing hip music, this is not good. Those are only surface fixes. If we merely tweak the surface level of things, we are missing the whole point of cultural change and what the emerging church is about. That is only a re-fluffing of the pillows. I believe true emerging churches must go deep within, and from the inside out, rethink, reshape, and revalue how we go about everything as culture changes. We must rethink leadership, church structure, the role of a pastor, spiritual formation, how community is lived out, how evangelism is done, how we express our worship etc.
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But nevertheless, the emerging church needs to revere, teach, respect, discuss, and study the Bible. I think all the more in our emerging culture, do we need to create a culture of hungering for the Scriptures.
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I really like what Dan Kimball had to say. I think he "nailed it" with regards to some of the common misconceptions about the emerging church (e.g. it's all about worship style). I also found this line from Webber's conclusion very intriguing:
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First, these leaders remind us that we live in a new world. This assertion doesn't mean that emergents feel the old modern world is completely gone. They acknowledge we live in two worlds-the modern and postmodern. What they ask of us is to get ready for the new world, to recognize that we live in a time of transition, where the old Christendom is dying and the new postmodern world is emerging...the church is in a new missional setting.
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I highly recommend this book for anyone interested in understanding the theology of the emerging church. Although I certainly disagree with some of the points these guys make (as do the other authors in the book), I found the overall tone and "feel" of this book to be very Christ-like and inspiring. God is doing great things with the emerging church. We need to praise Him for raising up leaders like the five essayists in this book and pray for more like them to lead the next generation of the church.
Joel
13 of 28 people found the following review helpful:
 a conversation between four persons with an interlocutor , 2007-06-19
This book is simply not a conversation (at least not for one of the participants). Further, Mark Driscoll doesn't seem to be listening to any of the other people who contribute to this book.
Driscoll's chapter seems to be a recycled piece of propaganda. His positions are "backed" by scripture references over 200 for his 15 pages. He advocates a "Biblicist" tradition that reads as a very reformed position (with the possible exception of a modified Arminianism or Wesleyanism). Driscoll's responses to the other person's chapters are especially revealing as he labels the other person's positions and then rejects them. For example he dismisses Karen Ward as the pastor of an "average" church and then even questions here leadership because of her gender. He mentions Dan Kimball's cool hair. I found Driscoll's "contribution" to the book to be of very little value. Further, he doesn't seem to be engaged in the emergent conversation unless you count the fact that he recommends Leslie Newbigin and Gruder's books on his website.
John Burke's chapter speaks of the messiness of ministry. He advocates a place where people are accepted and engaged by persons who attempt to incarnate Jesus.
Dan Kimball moves to explain how he moved from being Dispensationalist position to a missional theology. This missional theology is much more mysterious and adventurous than a mathematical puzzle.
Doug Pagitt seeks a theology which is embodied. This theology must be contextual and he argues for thinking in relational terms. I suppose that this chapter aligns most closely with what I think of when it comes to the emergent church.
Karen Ward takes the local theology of the "apostles" of the "Church of the Apostles" located in Seattle. She advocates a communal listening to the Scriptures from the Revised Common Lectionary. Her chapter is an ad hoc correlation of comments from the theological soup of her congregation.
28 of 32 people found the following review helpful:
The Theologianhood Of The Believer..., 2007-05-03
...is what emerging churches are about, at least according to this book (with the exception of Mark Driscoll's contributions). I say "contributions" because each of the five contributors not only writes a chapter of his/her own, but responds to each of the chapters by the other contributors. So by the time you've finished the parts written by the contributors, you have a pretty good idea of what the contributors are thinking about things.
In addition, this book contains some context for the conversations of the contributors, provided at the beginning and end by evangelical theologian Robert Webber. He contends American evangelical Christianity is at the beginning of the fourth of four roughly twenty-year cycles, seeking how to interact with a post-Christian, neo-pagan culture, finding that the questions to which they have answers aren't being asked anymore.
The placement of the names on the cover is a pretty accurate reflection of where the contributors are theologically. The only change I would make is swapping Karen Ward and Doug Pagitt.
Each of the five contributors have different diagnoses of the problems with American evangelical Christianity in the early 21st century:
Mark Driscoll says the problem is watering down the truth of Scripture, giving Jesus a makeover to make him more attractive to our culture. His prescription is to unapologetically present the message of Jesus as told by an authoritative Scripture. As I read his words, I remembered Bible teacher J. Vernon McGee saying "The chief sin of the church is ignorance of the word of God."
John Burke says the problem is that American Christians are both hypocritical, unchanged in their character and behavior, and judgemental, believing they have a monopoly on truth. His prescription is to invite people to come as they are, recognizing it might take a while for changes in people to take place.
Dan Kimball says the problem is that we're still stuck with those dispensational end-time charts, and scared that someone is going to ask a question to which we don't know the answer. His prescription is to create a worshipping community of missional theologians, people who are well-versed in the study of the nature of God, and inquiring into religious questions.
Doug Pagitt says the problem is any number of assumptions about the way we do theology, an unwillingness to address new questions raised by scientific advances, and an unwillingness to think about the increasing rate of cultural change. His prescription is to challenge these assumptions and address new cultural realities.
Karen Ward says the problem is the modern pastor-as-CEO model. Her prescription is an apprentice model of discipleship, distributing as much of the mentoring as possible. Her prescription also involves a metaphor of theology as the cooking of tasty, nutritious food, as opposed to the metaphor of theology as architecture.
Robert Webber provides a helpful summary of the contributions in his conclusion section. In my opinion, Webber's Appendix 2, "What is the Ancient-Future Vision?" and Appendix 3, "A Call to an Ancient Evangelical Future" should have been placed immediately after the conclusion section, because Webber just wasn't finished commenting. It is unfortunate that some readers of this book won't read these parts because of where they are placed.
I considered my complaints about the placement of names on the cover, and the placements of the appendices to be insufficient to take the fifth star away from a revealing book about American evangelical Christians in the early 21st century.
Full Disclosure: I attend Solomon's Porch in Minneapolis, Minnesota, and Doug Pagitt, one of the contributors, is my pastor.
32 of 34 people found the following review helpful:
A great look at the diversity of the Emerging Churches, 2007-04-20
After a while, studying the Emerging Church leaves you wondering if any of the major figureheads of the movement really agree on anything. Robert Webber has created a "boy band" (with one girl) of the Emerging Church with this book - putting together the right blend of different leaders from the movement to show five representative streams and make it an entertaining read all at the same time.
Although the idea may have originated to show the commonality between Emerging leaders, what is better highlighted is the diversity of belief between these folks. Through reading this book you learn what makes a Dan Kimball who he is and how that is different from the approach that a Karen Ward will take.
The book shows the commonalities found in the Emerging Church in a more inductive way. The Emerging Church's focus on those who do not know the faith yet is very apparent, and the missional philosophy of church is a major factor. Additionally, a general feeling that the things that these pastors were taught in seminaries didn't give them all that they needed. Dan Kimball who went to a Baptist seminary goes on and on about the Nicene Creed which was probably not taught all that much. Karen Ward, educated in the ELCA (she actually grew up as an LCMS Lutheran) expresses a dissatisfaction with how she was taught theology as a "big theology" instead of a more localized effort. Lastly, an overwhelming warm fuzzy feeling prevades the book. I don't think this is a mistake, these Emerging Church leaders don't see each other as enemies even when they disagree which says things both good and bad about the movement.
This book is also a rare look into what many theologians want to know about the Emerging Church, the specific theological beliefs of the Emerging Church. However, rather than finding specific theological beliefs, what the reader finds is theological beliefs from all sorts of different Christian traditions (liberal protestant, post-evangelical emergent, Calvinistic conservative, etc) tied together by a sense of urgency and purpose.
There are specific ideas about favorite theological "picking points" in the book. Scripture's role, the Trinity, and substitutionary atonement are all addressed. It would be remiss, however, for someone to claim that this book clears up how the Emerging Church sees these issues as a whole. It appears that the Emerging Church has beliefs, but they are far from homogenized as of yet.
Instead, what the reader finds is a clearer understanding of how they might fit into what this "Emerging Church" looks like. Five of the Emerging Church's most popular pastors seek to show not only the unity that they feel in being "emerging" but in the diversity that they express through their different takes on things from Baptism to ideas about physics.
It's a good read and I would recommend it to anyone who is far enough along in their research to know at least a few of the names in the book. If you don't know who Mark Driscoll, Dan Kimball, and Doug Pagitt are - you should spend a little more time getting to know the movement before you read this book.
65 of 104 people found the following review helpful:
Driscoll gets both stars...the others: Zero, 2007-03-29
I was pretty apprehensive about reading this book. I really didn't know what to expect and didn't know really what the approach was going to be with this book. To be honest, the only reason that I picked up the book is because I went to the Resurgence Conference and Mark Driscoll was one of the contributors. I am glad I didn't "judge" Driscoll for being a part of this book before I read this, because I thought he was distancing himself from the people that contributed to this book. After reading, let's just say that Driscoll is definitely NOT a part of what is commonly known as the Emergent church and he is really a lot different than those a part of the wider used term, "emerging church."
The only thing that I got from this book, besides Driscoll admonishing the other contributors (Burke, Kimball, Pagitt, Ward), is to make sure that our theology is put into practice. I can say that it did make me think from that perspective. Outside of that, this book was very shallow and far from, and I mean FAR FROM, biblical ecclesiology. Mark Driscoll had to continually "exhort sound doctrine" to these other "pastors" and return them to the Scriptures. Driscoll was the only pastor that truly held to Sola Scriptura, while the others look more to our culture and those around them to form their ecclesiology, orthopraxy, and most dangerous: orthodoxy.
The two "pastors" that people need to really be warned of is Doug Pagitt and Karen Ward. They are far from Christendom (which they would admit and happily accept) and should not be given an ear to listen to. Burke and Kimball were on the edge but still held to the complete authority of Scripture, although I would definitely not adhere to a lot of the ways that they practice their theology and more specifically, their ecclesiology.
Again, Driscoll was the lone bright spot and because of the far reaching post-modern ideas of the other contributors, Driscoll sounded like John MacArthur more than an emerging pastor. Througout the discussion, just when you thought Driscoll was getting "soft" he "brought it" again.
As far as the frame of the book, it is set up to give each "pastor" a chapter with the other four being able to respond to that pasor's contribution. The original intent was for each author to show their thoughts on the Trinity, the atonement and Scripture. I found only Driscoll's chapter to be the only one who "followed the rules." But, what else should we expect from these emerging leaders? The sad thing is that since the authors were so shallow, Driscoll was forced to defend basic orthodoxy and wasn't able to give a great in depth study or defense of the above said topics.
If you would like to read about these different views on the emerging church, I guess it is okay to read, but it is just so messed up as far as their thinking on how church should be run that it is hard for me to recommend. I am glad I read it so that I could see that Driscoll is NOT Emergent in any way. He is far from Pagitt and McLaren and should be seen as the lone bright spot out of these that contributed to the book.
Please be discerning if you pick this book up and like a Berean, test all teachings to Scripture.
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